On a totally unrelated note to what has been mentioned here recently, I have just learned today that apparently the FBI is investigating my neighbor’s in regards to drug trafficing, etc… apparently some big dealers have been supplying them… and apparently some stuff has happened recently. I’m not too sure whether it involves the parents, or the kids there, but either way it’s really pathetic and sad. I kinda know the kids, used to hang out with them, but, they’re somewhat younger then me, and have obviously chosen a different path of life, so while I see them around sometimes, hanging out with them doesn’t really happen. But yeah, there is certainly potential for so much more, and you hate to see someone throw their life away… but uhh.. yeah, FBI. Makes this little piece of MD seem a little more important all of the sudden, eh?
On yet another completely unrelated note, I am either tonight or tomorrow, going to start another site. A site which no one will know is mine. A site on which I can post whatever the heck I want, because no one else will know who I am or what I am talking about. Not that I don’t do that most of the time here anyway, but I have learned that sometimes it is best to restrain, and sometimes I push the limits and whenever I do I worry about it 😉 so.. yeah. New site. You can look for it if you want, but you get no clues.
And now the post we’ve all been waiting for… that was supposed to be up yesterday and wasn’t… and that I am putting up today but almost wasn’t ;)…..
Abortion…
Right or wrong? why or why not? Hmmm… quite the debate. It’s a touchy subject, generally, but that’s ok, because I don’t mind offending people.
It all depends on how you define life, really. Consider this. If any speck of cell division at all were found on another planet, there would be huge announcements of how they found life on another world. If EXACTLY what is in a mother at conception was found on another planet, it would be life. However, abortionists would have you believe that it is NOT life. It’s just you know… some tissues. Most abortionists would point to the time when one is able to live on one’s own as the time that one is alive. Using this logic, one can say that at any time in one’s life when they are incapable of living on their own, they are not alive. How about people hooked up to respirators, or other medical equipment, which keeps them “alive”. They are not capable of living without the assistance of those machines, just as a child is not capable of living without the mother. And think about this, even after birth, a child cannot live on it’s own. Perhaps we shouldn’t consider someone “alive” until they are fully capable of supporting their own selves, in which case, personally, I have not yet reached the state of life yet.
So I think it is safe to say the only sane defintion of life we can give is that, for humans, it begins at conception.
That means that there is another life to take into consideration. For further evidence of this, they can now operate on the child while it is still in the womb. It is very much alive at that point.
Now, onto another point, only semi-related…. here is something I found on another website in regards to Planned Parenthood, and Margaret Sanger, it’s founder:
“I’ve heard that Planned Parenthood is pro-family, pro-life, and pro-child.
Their paid TV commercials say that, but their own official documents, their leaders, and their actions say quite the opposite. In 1976, the Planned Parenthood’s Five Year Plan (see reference above) laid out in detail what their goals were. We quote:
– Objective #2: “Reaffirming and protecting the legitimacy of induced abortion as a necessary back-up to contraceptive failure, and extending safe, dignified services to women who seek them.”
– Purpose: “To provide leadership in making . . . abortion and sterilization available and fully accessible to all.”
“The various activities that we undertake are not ‘separate’ and certainly not competing. Rather, they are all complementary parts of a single national strategy” (page 5).
“Services to be made available at all clinics include . . . abortion services (or local referral)” (emphasis in original, page 6).
– Program Emphasis #2: “Keeping abortions legal and accessible to all persons” (page 9).
Is their emphasis still on abortion?
Since the Five Year Plan above, the Planned Parenthood agenda is even more openly and militantly pro-abortion as outlined in their newest action agenda. For example, in Goal #3, they state that Planned Parent-hood will ” increase the number of Planned Parenthood affiliates providing early ambulatory abortion services.” Planned Parenthood of America, Til Victory is Won, 1982, 1984, p. 16
“To increase the availability and accessibility of high quality and affordable reproductive health care services [abortion]” PPFA Five Year Plan 1986-1990, preamble
“Until we reach the millennium . . . Planned Parent-hood will continue to provide not only sex education and contraception, but also abortion.” A. Moran, Exec. V.P., Planned Parenthood of New York City, New York Times, Dec. 27, 1982
[Planned Parenthood] is not just a social or medical service agency. It is part of a cause, a movement. One of the principles of Planned Parenthood is that reproductive freedom is indivisible. You either have it or not. Everybody has it or none has it.” Don Weintraub, V.P. for Int’l Affairs, PPFA, Madison, Mar. 12, 1985
Family Planning Associations should not use the absence of law or the existence of an unfavorable law as an excuse for inaction. Action outside the law, and even in violation of it, is part of the process of stimulating change . . . of fertility regulation services or specific methods.” Art. 106, p. 28, Int. P.P. Fed., Nov. 1983 Planned Parenthood has promoted a pro-abortion “comic book,” geared for teenagers, entitled Abortion Eve. On the back cover is a caricature of the “Assumption of the Blessed Virgin” depicting a pregnant Mary with the idiot face of Mad magazine’s Alfred E. Neumann. The caption says, “What, me worry?”
It is the policy of Planned Parenthood to insure that women have the right to seek and obtain safe legal abortions. Planned Parenthood has the responsibility to provide access to high-quality abortion services. . . . Federation Policies, PPFA, Jan. 1986
Faye Wattleton, Pres. of P.P., said, “I make it very clear. If you’re not clear where you stand on the abortion issue, if you’re worried that birth control for teenagers encourages promiscuity . . . this [P.P] is not the kind of outfit you’re comfortable with.” “The Faye Wattleton Comeback,” P. Span, Wash. Post, Oct. 14, 1987
Planned Parenthood has aggressively defended abortion rights in the courts in recent years, thus dropping any earlier pretense of neutrality. The most famous case was Casey vs. Planned Parenthood, a 1990 decision of the U.S. Supreme Court.
What does Planned Parenthood think of Right to Life?
They have an opinion.
“In every generation there exists a group of people so filled with bigotry and self-righteousness that they will resort to any means — even violence — to impose their views on society. Today, such fanatics dominate a movement ironically called ‘the Right-to-Life,’ a movement which threatens the most basic of all human rights.” Planned Parenthood Pamphlet, the Justice Fund, 810 7th Ave., New York, NY, 10019
But Margaret Sanger, its founder, opposed abortion.
Not so! Not only did she favor abortion, but she proposed forced sterilization for those whom she considered unfit to reproduce. She worked hard for a “race of thoroughbreds” until Hitler’s similar “Master Race” made that goal unpopular. She was a true eugenicist. For example, her April 1933 Birth Control Review, devoted an entire edition to eugenic sterilization.
Who did she consider unfit?
Black people, Jews, Southern European immigrants (especially Italians), but also others of “low I.Q.” These “feebleminded” people were a “menace to the race.” E. Drogin, Margaret Sanger: Father of Modern Society, CUL Publishers, 1980, Section 1, p. 18-24
This is hard to believe!
Margaret Sanger, the famous founder of Planned Parenthood, was supportive. She wanted “more children from the fit, less from the unfit.” Birth Control Review, vol. 3, no. 5, May 1919, p. 2
This wasn’t only related to contraceptive planning. A seditor, she printed grossly eugenic material, approving of Hitler’s sterilization program (see Into the Darkness, Nazi Germany Today, by L. Stoddard, p. 196). She believed that “Negroes and Southern Europeans were mentally inferior to native born Americans.” She found these people, Hebrews, and others “feebleminded,” “human weeds,” and called them a “menace to the race.” In 1933, her Birth Control Review devoted an entire edition to eugenic sterilization. Sanger’s famous “Plan for Peace” was almost the same as Hitler’s, even going beyond it to suggest, in essence, concentration camps.
“When the world realized the logical consequences of Hitler’s hereditarian-eugenic, totalitarian type of government, Margaret Sanger’s birth-control movement had to take a quick step away from its overt eugenic language.” E. Drogin, Margaret Sanger, Father of Modern Society, CUL Publications, 1979, p. 28
Tell me more.
Let us quote from her “Plan for Peace.” This was little more than peaceful genocide. She wanted the United States:
– “To keep the doors of immigration closed to the entrance of certain aliens whose condition is known to be detrimental to the stamina of the race, such as the feebleminded as determined by Stanford-Binet I.Q. tests.
– “To apply a stern and rigid policy of sterilization and segregation to that grade of population whose progeny is already tainted, or whose inheritance is such that objectionable traits may be transmitted to offspring.
– “To insure the country against future burdens of maintenance for numerous offspring as may be born of feeble-minded parents by pensioning all persons with transmissible diseases who voluntarily consent to sterilization.
– “To give dysgenic groups in our population their choice of segregation or sterilization.
– “To apportion farm lands and homesteads for these segregated persons where they would be taught to work under competent instructors for a period of their entire lives. [Practically speaking, a concentration camp.]
– “[To] take an inventory of the secondary group such as illiterates, paupers, unemployables, criminals, prostitutes, dope fiends; classify them in special departments under government medical protection, and segregate them on farms and open spaces as long as necessary for the strengthening and development of moral conduct.” (Again, concentration camps.) M. Sanger, “Plan for Peace,” Birth Control Review, vol. 16, no. 4, April 1932
But I’ve read that she was a social crusader for good.
Hardly. She said, “The most merciful thing a large family can do for one of its infant members is to kill it.” 6 Sanger, Woman and the New Race
She herself was highly promiscuous and had many lovers. She favored “free love” for women without any sexual limits but without the burden of children. She saw “the marriage bed [as] the most degenerating influence in the social order.” 7 Kennedy, David M. Birth Control in America: The Career of Margaret Sanger, London: Yale University Press, 1970.
But Planned Parenthood wants to reduce teen pregnancies, doesn’t it?
Let’s be specific. Planned Parenthood wants to reduce teen births. It is not trying to reduce teen sex activity; in fact its sex education programs do exactly the opposite.”
Interesting stuff, wouldn’t you say? Now, another popular argument of abortionists, is how “safe” abortions are. Abortions are safer then giving birth they say. While abortion is a “safe” procedure in comparison to many procedures, I am sorry, but no, it is not safer then giving birth. Also, abortionists like to talk about how many women died from backalley, illegal abortions. they quote the figures “1 million illegal abortions and 5,000-10,000 women died from them.”
Now, here’s the problem with that. How many illegal abortions were there? 1 million? and how did you come up with that conclusion? Is that because 92% of statistics are made up on the spot? Think about this people. NO ONE KNOWS how many illegal abortions there were. Why? Because they were ILLEGAL. They were not reported. The only times they WERE reported was in the case of death.
So… 1972. 5,000-10,000 women dead from illegal abortions? Let’s look into that.
According to a chart used on the floor by the Senate in 81, there was a sharp drop in deaths from illegal abortions in the late 40’s. This is due largely to the introduction of Penicillin, it helped to control infections a lot better. Now, the number of deaths in the 50’s was about 250/year, and by 1966, it was down to 120 deaths due to illegal abortions. The drop there is due to new antibiotics, better surgery, and intensive care units being established in hospitals. 1967-1970, abortion became legal in 16 states. Mostly limited, but in NY and CA abortions were done on demand. There is no sharp drop in the number of deaths from abortions on the chart.
Here we are, back to 1972. How many women died from abortions that year? 39 deaths due to illegal abortions, with what’s this? an addition 25 deaths due to LEGAL abortions. And there is no drop in deaths come 1973. The death-rate from abortions stayed pretty much the same.
And the 1 million illegal abortions that took place in 1972? Unlikely, as 750,000 was the total number reported in 1973. Wow, lot less people decided they wanted to have an abortion once it was legal, huh?
Dr. Bernard Nathanson, who once ran the largest abortion facility in the Western world, but is now pro-life, said: “it was always ‘5,000 to 10,000 deaths a year.’ I confess that I knew the figures were totally false, [italics added] and I suppose the others did too if they stopped to think of it. But in the ‘morality’ of our revolution, it was a useful [Nathanson’s italics] figure, widely accepted, so why go out of our way to correct it with honest statistics? The overriding concern was to get the laws eliminated, and anything within reason that had to be done was permissible.”
So, how about the death rates from legal abortions, and from beyond 1972? Here they are:
1958-62 – 5
1963-67 – 4
1968-69 – 4
1970 – 36
1971 – 54
1972 – 25
1973 – 25
1974 – 26
1975 – 29
1976 – 11
1977 – 21
1978 – 9
1979 – 18
1980 – 9
1981 – 7
1982-84 – 34
1985-87 – 26
It is important to note that the goverment stopped collecting these statistics in 1987 because they were not being reported accurately. Other causes of death besides abortion were given on the death certificates. Since the statistics were no longer accurate, if they were completely accurate to begin with, they stopped keeping them. The numbers,therefore, were higher then what you see.
This really is not any less deaths from legal abortions then what we had from illegal abortions. How can this be? Backalley abortions with coathangers are pretty dangerous, right? In all actuality, except in maybe a few extreme cases, coathanger abortions are a complete myth, at least in America. Illegal abortions were conducted by doctors, just as they are today. Except back then the would-be mother came in the back door, in secret, now she comes in the front door. The same procedure is done. The risk is the same. If abortion is made illegal, those are still the SAME types of abortion that will occur.
And this is copied from a website, as to how safe abortions are compared to giving birth:
“Pro-abortion people commonly say that it is. “Maternal mortality” is listed as deaths of women per 100,000 pregnancies. This figure has been commonly listed as eleven, compared to deaths from induced abortion, which are listed as one or two. Therefore, they say abortion is seven times safer. Not so! Maternal mortality, in recent years, has dropped to seven, not eleven.
But more important is the fact that, included in maternal mortality, are all deaths from induced abortions and ectopic pregnancies. Included also in maternal mortality are all women who die while pregnant from almost any cause that is in any way related to pregnancy. Different states require longer or shorter lengths of post-partum time, but, typically, maternal mortality also includes any related death within one year after delivery.
Maternal mortality also includes deaths from caesarean section. To compare comparable risks, one would have to compare the risk of being pregnant in the first three months with the risk of having an abortion within the first three months. When compared in this fashion, abortion is many times more dangerous. Actually, it is probable that induced abortion is more dangerous than carrying a baby to term. Maternal Mortality Surveillance ’79-’86, Center for Disease Control, M&M Weekly report July ’91, Vol. 40, No. SS-1″
And my LAST point here… let’s look at Poland, where up until recently, abortion was illegal. Compare 1990’s statistics with 1994’s (1994 was the second year abortion was illegal).
In 1990:
Total abortions: 59,417
Women’s Deaths connected with pregnancy: 90
Miscarriages: 59,454
Cases of Infanticide: 31
Births: 546,000
In 1994:
Total Abortions: 782
Women’s deaths connected with pregnancy: 57
Miscarriages: 49,970
Cases of infanticide: 17
Births: 482,000
Not the statistics you expected? hmmm…. interesting….
Planned Parenthood didn’t think so either. In fact, that is exactly the opposite of what they predicted would happen. But guess what? They were wrong.
I think that I can let these facts speak for themselves at this point. I think it’s obvious that all this information came from different sources, and most of it was reworded into my own words.
Your comments are welcome. And until next time, I challenge you, don’t accept what you are told. Go out and research this information. The truth is out there (stupid x-files… that sounds so cheesy now ;))…
Godspeed.
oh, and this song relates to the topic.
Zao – A Tool To Scream
“Goodybe, they breathe but cannot scream.
They have no tools to build voices.
They wait in fetal position.
Martyrs on altars of mistakes.
The martyr.
They have not the tools to scream.
They are just the ones upon altars of mistake.
There is no safe place.
The martyr.”
What I am going to say will shock most of you.
Woo hoo! I personaly will never* with the exeption of rape* have an abortion. I am sexualy active and will take responsablity for my actions. I also am on birth control and never EVER have unprotected sex. *I may not be able to have kids… but I’m still safe…* HOWEVER… *the part that won’t shock a single person who reads this.* I will fight to the death for the right that a woman holds over her own body. I may not agree that it is the “right” thing to do. And I would talk about other options… Adoption namely. It is a shame that abortion was orignialy intended for some horrific genocide. But you know what? The use now is NOT for some sort of master race as it were. It is a safe and good option for women. I’ve read your facts and I have my own. * got to love Ms. Mag* and prolife websites. 
. If a young girl, 15 was raped by her father and was pregnent, should she have an abortion? Or what would you recomend.
At least it is controled by the govenrment. In a safe way. I have a question for you all.
is it the babies fault the girl’s father raped her? using your reasoning we could just as well kill the 15 year old girl, I mean she was the one who was raped… and who cares about human life.
unborn fetuses are not living. well actually i’d be willing to kill a lot of functioning people that are already living now, but the unborn do not live. they live as soon as they can breathe air. unless they’re mermaids, in which case…well you get my point. it is, like you said, a bunch of tissue. how do we define that moment when a being can function on its own? well, you can’t exactly say that a human is only alive when it can file its own tax return, pay its own mortgage, etc., but when it can sustain itself on its own breath is when it should be considered an actual person. i have no problems with abortion whatsoever…like memmielou i will defend any woman’s right to one. and about the fifteen-year-old girl…the only thing to do is for her to get an abortion. not only is her body not prime for childbirth, the act of having a child at this point presents a potential for the girl to die. so. it’s now an issue of would you remove something that would act much as a cancer–tissues that keep growing until one day they cause her demise–or save the girl from a death in childbirth? yeah, i know that not every girl in this situation dies from childbirth but it’s a fucking real potential.
It’s also a real potential that she could die from the abortion. So, breathing air makes one human, huh? How about someone that’s hooked up to a respirator? they can’t breathe their own air. I guess they’re not “human” anymore, eh? The song I posted at the end of this…. It was written after he saw a video of an abortion. “The scalpel came in, and the baby tried to move away from it, and the scalpel moved in closer and cut off his arm, and you could see the baby’s expression on it’s face, it was screaming, and regardlesss there was nothing it could do, there was no one there to help it.” You go watch that fricking video, and come back here and tell me that baby isn’t fricking alive.It’s retty convenient when all it is to you is a fricking fetus, huh? Well when you do that, it’s just as easy to make other classifications of human life. “They’re not really living, they’re elderly”…. “they’re not really living, they’re jews”… “They’re not really living, they’re mentally handicapped”… “They’re not really living, they’re disfigured.”
So I thought the movie Gattaca was pretty interesting to watch. Thinking about it now, I don’t think it will be far off from the truth.
you should offer to be part of a sting for the FBI for your neighbors. yes, its sad but hey you could help the kids get on a better path of life
**manda
So… Ekulf is an idiot. Why have a child who will be born with defects (incest = defects) when you can prevent this. Noone wants to live in constant pain, why subject them to it? Having that child would be the same as shaking a baby in my books.
Also, don’t talk to poorly about your neighbours. There is nothing wrong with drug dealing, it is an honourable trade. Should things not work out for me with the whole IT sector thing I always have drug dealing/organized crime to fall back on. My familly is 3 generations strong in that respect. Some drugs shouldn’t be illegal (marijuana), and others should (tobacco). It’s the government who are the real criminals.
well, a person who’s hooked up to a respirator isn’t really “living” anymore. and no, if i were hooked up to a respirator, i wouldn’t consider myself human, i’d consider myself dead. i’m one of those people who would not want to be put on life support.
as for abortion, i still stand by what i said. you described a video…is that supposed to move me somehow? yes, i’m callous, yes, i’m coldhearted when it comes to this. say what you like, i still say abortion is right and anyone who tries to make out that fetuses have the intellect and brainpower and plain out rights of a real human is nutty. and as for your question: “It’s retty convenient when all it is to you is a fricking fetus, huh?” (i’m guess that “retty” is actually “really”)…convenient for what? to cause it to have no potential for life? to, as some people would say, “kill” it? how does it being a fetus as opposed to a person make it more or less convenient? this probably makes no sense to me because i feel that i’d have no problem killing an actual person if i felt it was the right thing to do.
but then again, that’s just me.
fuck that last comment didn’t post itself. anyways what i said was basically to Aarontsung and his comment saying “I always have drug dealing/organized crime to fall back on. My familly is 3 generations strong in that respect.”
i have only one word to say to that:
Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice.
No, AaronTsung, if anyone is an idiot, you are. What you are saying in that comment is: People with birth defects are better off dead. You have already made the generaliztion that we should kill people with birth defects. Congratulations.
Yes, it is terrible for a girl to be raped by her father. Yes, it is even more terrible that she should become pregnant by it. Her having an abortion does NOT CHANGE THE FACT THAT IT HAPPENED. And while there is a high chance that the baby will have birth defects, it is possible that it will not, or at least that they will not be extreme. Even if they were, you have no right to deny that child it’s most basic human right. The right to live. As to silvestorm, people are often hooked up to respirators in the case of accidents, etc. Without the respirator, they would die, but if they’re on it for say, a week, they can then be taken off of it and live another good 30, 40 years… even more (depending on their age to begin with).
Life is obviously not a very precious or sacred thing for you, and that is sad. You admit that you are coldhearted and callous, and yet you think someone is nuts to say that an unborn child has rights? No, I’m sorry, but you’re just wrong.
And I say it’s convenient, because it makes it real easy for you to say “get rid of it” when all it is is a scientiffic term with no emotional ties to it. If it’s a baby, then you have all that cuteness and loving that everyone associates with babies to deal with. So calling it a fetus or a blob of flesh helps to make it not seem so real.
there is only a slightly increased chance of birth defects in this case…. its only after many generations of inbreeding that birth defects become a problem…. and there are many people with birth defects who are glad they are alive…
also many people are hooked up to a resperator for only a short period of time… until they can breath on their own… so what you are saying is people can go in and out of being human
I think I should do my thing on the “grow some balls” phrase since i was going to use abortion as an example…. maybe this weekend
yup people can go in and out of being human. yup.
and where did all my comments go? like the one where i said that babies are irritating..as opposed to the “cute and cuddly” connotation most people (apparently including yourself) tend to associate with the word.
now blob, that’s a cute word. would i really be killing a blob? darn, i have to rethink my entire philosophy now.
that second part up on that comment was sarcasm.
in case you didn’t get it.
haha this is entertaining! maybe i’ll just leave comments up the wazoo!
…or maybe not.
So, you are saying that if it were possible to prevent a lifetime of suffering that you would not do it?
By forcing someone to have a child that they do not want, you force them to have a child they will not love. These children who grow up without love, without being given the attention that children require, these are the children that grow up to be criminals. And why? Because some extreme right-wing nut job thought that ‘all life is precious’, even life that isn’t really living yet. Is a tape work precious? One could compare a tape work to a fetus and realize that they have much in common. The fetus is not sentient, is not capable of making choises, is not cognisant of it’s own being (which is what we believe makes humans better than say monkeys), and feeds of the host (mother). The same things can be said about the tape worm. You see, a fetus isn’t really a life. Think about that for a while.
Also, by elaborating on Rene Descates’ proof of god/existance (i think therefore I am) one can prove that God is nothing more than an innocent bystandard in the ‘grand scheme’… but I’ll save that one for later.
My personal opinon would be in this case to abort the child. If there were going to be problems with the prengancy. Now if there were going to be NO risk to the mother in any way, then give the child away to adoption. But I don’t think it’s right to force a girl into only two options. Keep the kid or give it up. There has to be another option. And no it would not make the fact of the matter go awaty. But it would make life eayser for the young girl.
Yes. This stuff is ALL true. I have a friend who is an AWSOME christian now, but before she came to know Christ, she had slept with her boyfriend and ended up pregnant. She had an abortion and was told the risks. The risk of dying from and abortion is more than going through child birth! Oh and the whole guilt thing, although she knows she knows that she should move on, she feels horrible about it.
Yes, forcing a woman to have the child does mean that she’s having a child she doesn’t love. Why not put the kid up for adoption? Here in my neck of the wood, a woman can take her baby to a hospital and put it up for adoption no questions asked. There is a woman in my church who is ALWAYS adopting kids and loves them all VERY much. Many of them also have birth defects.
So, I say now, why have abortion when it’s more risky and you also have alternatives?
I’ve not had an abortion. However I have had 3 misscarrages. and nearly died from one of them…*all from the rape experainces I’ve had in my lifetime… the first when I was 12.* I would say that the guilt is about the same, perhaps even more with the misscarage. I don’t know what to think. Life is holy. A gift. But there are so many instenses where an abortion can help. I don’t know if it would have helpped my situation or not. but… eah. It’s still a choice.
AaronTsung… your tapeworm example is retarded. But yes, it is stupid and not right to senselessly go around slaughtering tape worms. They exist for a reason, and should be allowed to do so.
As to preventing “a lifetime of suffering”…. there are plenty of people with birth defects that enjoy life, and would not want to be dead. It is not up to you to decide that for them. You’re “preventing a lifetime of suffering” is killing them. Therefore, your ideolgy is, if there’s a 5 year old kid with some birth defects, you should kill him or her, because they have a whole lifetime of “suffering” ahead of them. Your ideology is, if something is painful or hard, suicide would be a good way out. It is an ideology that believes life to be worthless.
Anyway, I may be slow to respond today/tomorrow. My hard drive crashed last night and so I am currently without my own computer… on a friend’s at the moment. But, I will get it replaced soon 😉
Godspeed.
lol… wow… I was tired. ummm… that was me, in the last post. That is my friend’s name, obviously, as I am on her computer 😉 oops. You’d think I’d have noticed, since I managed to accidently give myself eprops, that I wasn’t signed onto my name. Oh well. That was me, not her.
what purpose would a tapeworm serve?! so if you had one in you you wouldn’t kill it? cuz it’d be “senseless slaughter”…ergh.
it’s kind of interesting to think of the whole abortion issue because i myself should have been aborted but wasn’t. am i glad i wasn’t aborted? in a way. would it have mattered to me if i was? probably not. someone wrote somewhere about the recycling of souls…if a soul doesn’t get used in one place then it’ll get put into another body. i think that’s true.
yeah adoption’s another very viable option for the mother but the point is she’s fifteen and shouldn’t have to be going through the shit of being pregnant. guys are not allowed to talk. you have never been pregnant nor will ever be and even just knowing someone who’s been pregnant does not count. actually quite frankly when it comes to issues like abortions and such the only people it directly affects is women. guys can think what they like but i don’t think they should have a say in the matter when it comes to voting. (sorry guys but until you can get pregnant…)
btw aarontsung, good point about the tapeworm. also, good point about the aborting deformed kids so they won’t have to suffer through their lives. i agree with you on that one.
*getting tired of the whole issue* SAVE THE SLAUGHTERD TAPE WORMS! THEY ARE PEOPLE TOO… THEY HAVE A SOUL! *arugh* *bangs head on table*
that is one hell of a mufuckin long post.
haha memmielou.
Limbersay seems to have a mental defect. A fetus isn’t alive, so you can not compare it to a 5 year old child who is indeed alive, who has the ability (or atleast will) to chose. Comparing a fetus to a tapeworm is fair, for as far as I know tapeworms don’t know they exist. Have you ever taken antibiotics? They kill parasites. Do you have white blood cells? Guess what their purpose is… You see, our bodies kill stuff all the time. Eventually, female bodies may be capable of killing defective offspring before they are born. Insects do it all the time… so do some mammals. Bears for instance… they will kill a cub if they can’t feed it (i think it’s bears….), why don’t we? When skinned we look almost the same.
haha @ looking like a bear when we’re skinned.
i think it would be cool to be a bear…
Now skining a bear is where I draw the line. I will pickt the abortion of tape worms… But a naked bear? NO! *dances away*
you people are ridiculous. Yes, if a tapeworm was in me, I would have it taken out. MY point was that tapeworms do other things then get in humans. For someone to decide they are going to eliminate tape worms from the world, is wrong.
Your point is it’s difficult for a 15 year old girl to be pregnant? You know, it’s ALSO difficult for a 15 year old girl to go through an abortion. The abortion doesn’t change the fact that she got pregnant. I’m sick of girls using the excuse “you’re a guy, you don’t know what it’s like to be pregnant.” What the heck does that have to do with anything? I know PLENTY of girls who would agree with EVERYTHING I have said, many of which HAVE been pregnant. I’m sure you can come up with some other stupid reason to invalidate their arguments as well, but, you know… that’s just the way it goes, I guess.
Also, AaronTsung… do you even actually really read the posts? Did you not see the one that says that Limbersay did NOT write that post, that I accidently posted under her name? Yeah… helps to pay attention to detail.
What I think the real problem here is, is that you all KNOW that abortion is wrong, but you don’t care. It makes life easier, so who cares, right?
how can i know something’s wrong when it’s not.
silly silly reese.
no i draw the lines at skinning bears too. i would just like to be one. a live one. in the wild (no zoo for me!) cuz i think it’d be spiffy. a kodiak bear maybe.
“I know PLENTY of girls who would agree with EVERYTHING I have said, many of which HAVE been pregnant.” Well, I know plenty of people who agree with the statement “kill all jews”, or “the sun revolves around the earth”, or even “the earth is flat”. Hell, if I go in to a kindergarden class I’m sure I could convince them all that I am jesus. Just because you can find people to believe in your cause it doesn’t mean you are right.
You have made a gross generalization in saying that we ALL KNOW abortion is wrong. I think having a child you are unable to care for is wrong. Let’s take this 15 year old child example up a step… say she had HIV/AIDS… communicative HIV/AIDS… so when she has this baby which will likely have birth defects it will also have a deadly disease we are nowhere near curing. I think it’s wrong to force a child to exist. We are granted the power to create life, but with power comes responsibility. We have to be responsible for the life that we create, for once it is a life there is no going back.
I could go find a pamphlet and post it in this reply from some pro-abortion people, but it would be just as full of stupid propaganda and ‘smudged’ facts as reese’s post.
Uhhh. I don’t think abortion is wrong. In fact I think it’s a wonderful option for people who don’t want a child. What’s wrong is saying that everyone thinks abortion is(insert silly statement here). I believe in a greater power. And there can be a resyceling of souls if you will. If one child were aborted then the soul would go back to get reassigned if you will… *yes child… not fetus… I believe that it has a soul and all that jazz* *funny what the pagen would say.* It’s an option. And should remain one. So thank you very much. And good night. *Oh yeah. I admit to being reducuas. And I admit to being dislecix and not being able to spell for pooh.*
Yar.
The point is, AaronTsung, that it is ALREADY a life. It’s just a matter of if you let it die naturally or if you kill it. You want me to list the methods of abortion and what they do to the baby? It’s not fricking merciful or painless, so don’t use that to justify abortion.
And I never said that just because other people agree with me I am right. I said that you can’t invalidate my opinion on the basis that I cannot become pregnant. That has absolutely no relevance to this argument. THAT was my point.
“I think it’s wrong to force a child to exist. We are granted the power to create life, but with power comes responsibility. We have to be responsible for the life that we create, for once it is a life there is no going back.”
Dude, you just contradicted yourself. We have the power to create life, but then we are responsible for that life. Taking a life before it has a chance to make its own decisions isn’t exactly what I call taking responsibility.
UGH! Don’t you people see?! It IS responsable AND resonable to have an abotion. It’s a woman’s RESPONSABLITY to take care of HER needs. If SHE is UNCAPABLE or UNWILLING to have a CHILD then she SHOULD not be FORCED to.
“I believe in a greater power. And there can be a resyceling of souls if you will.” how is it so easy for you to believe something like that, but its so hard for you to belive the simple fact that abortion = murder?
now as for the person who is uncapable or unwilling to have a child, what is she doing getting pregnant in the 1st place… I mean I know you keep useing this rape case, but very very few abortions are done because of rape. alomst all abortions are because someone is not acting RESPONSABLY! yet you still think its ok for the child to be killed because two other people lack responsablity, common sense, self control, morality and respect for anything.
yes ekulf is right. A woman becomes preganant because of rape less than 1% of the time. Abortions in general are done because people do NOT act responsibly. If you are being responsible about creating life DON’T HAVE SEX unless you want to create life. While I know that may sound crazy to people that are completely obsessed with sex, it is in fact a pretty darned good idea.
Hummmm…. 1% sounds a bit low. seeing as NOT all rapes are reported. And seeing as I got pregnent each time I was raped…. Seems like a little flaw in your pro life web site logic. It’s a chocie to have an abortion. Now it won’t make the fact of the matter go away. That you were with child. But come on now. Saying it’s “murder”… oy. Now life is a gift. But so is free will. If I want to have sex I will. And if anyother female on the face of the earth *of age…* who wants to have sex CAN. Sex is not only to create life. It’s to have fun too. But your relgion teaches you differnt. That’s fine. Just don’t push it on the rest of us.
this maybe harsh but I think it must be said if it will get you to understand. You said you were raped memmielou, do you think the people who did that were wrong? because after all, it is a choice to rape someone… just like its a choice to have an abortion… you see with free will come like you said before responsibility. having abortions is immature and irresponsable and no different then rape.
as for what sex is… you are right it is for more then to just create life, but its not for having fun, its for 2 people to become one with each other forever, now if you want to have fun goto an amusement park.
Ahem. What YOUR relgion says about sex is just that. two people forever. That’s all well and good. For the people who follow your relgion. And please don’t equate geting raped with an abortion. It’s not the fucking same thing. And unless you know how if fucking feels. Don’t say anything thanks
maybe i do know how it feels…
good entry
I did not imply that you did not.
ekulf i believe this is from your comment:
“‘I believe in a greater power. And there can be a resyceling of souls if you will.’ how is it so easy for you to believe something like that, but its so hard for you to belive the simple fact that abortion = murder?”
how does that belief coincide in any way with the BELIEF that abortion= murder?
and sweetie, i do mean BELIEF. because what you have there is an opinion, and opinions are NEVER fact. i can give you an entire lesson on that (i once spent forty five minutes teaching a class of eighth graders that just because they think something [i.e., have an opinion; e.g. that girl is beautiful] does not mean that other people who think other things are wrong because, once again, i reiterate that OPINIONS DO NOT EQUAL FACTS).
whatever you folks choose to think is your business. just don’t try to impose your BELIEFS on the rest of the world.
I have a question for you, how do you determine what is fact and what is opinion. I mean so many people claim evolution to be fact when scientifically its just a hypothisis (which means its just a guess), but yet many people claim that it is an opinion that a fetus is not human, yet all evidence points to that it is, atleast after about 3-4 weeks anyways…
ok now you have to define a “human”
see, whatever you define as “human” is an opinion because it is able to be reasonably contested.
and sweetie, i think we know what hypothesis (i’m assuming that’s what you were trying to spell) means. we aren’t dolts.