Ok, I wrote this in response to something on billythestick’s site. However, I spent a good bit of time on it, so I decided I would make it a post rather then a comment. Just seems more people will see it this way.
Anyway, the post it is in response to said:
“This is something that a friend passed along to me that a guy she knows really and truly believes. How would you respond to this?
“Strange…a God who could make good children as easily as bad, yet preferred to make bad ones; who made them prize their bitter life, yet stingily cut it short; mouths Golden Rules and forgiveness multiplied seventy times seven and invented Hell; who mouths morals to other people and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, then tries to shuffle the responsibility for man’s acts upon man, instead of honorably placing it where it belongs, upon himself; and finally with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him!””
and here is my response:
ok, divide it up into points… basically what they are saying is:
1. God made bad people.
2. God made people die in a short period of time.
3. Forces us to forgive.
4. Condemns people to a Hell that he created.
5. Does things he tells us not to do.
6. Created man without man’s consent, and blames man for what he is, rather then himself.
7. Wants people to worship him because of all this.
So take each point one at a time, makes it a lot easier.
1. God did not make bad people. He made people who had a choice to do whatever they wanted. Think about it. By what standard do you judge what is good or bad? Who decides? There are many cases in which people disagree. So who is right? And even if we all agreed that something was bad, what makes it bad anyway? Maybe we are all just mistaken. There must be some standard. The standard is if it is in God’s will or against God’s will.
2. God created man to be an eternal being. When man chose to sin he chose death. It is not God that caused man to die, it is sin. The wages of sin is death. Think about it, an eternal being who is constantly doing evil things? After awhile things would get really bad. Could it really have been any other way?
3. Yeah, God wants us to forgive people, and he is forgiving himself. If he was not, we would not still be here. We all are completely deserving to be wiped off the face of the planet. By all means God should have destroyed everyone long ago, if you take his love and forgiveness out of the picture.
4. God did not create “Hell”. Hell is simply a state that must exist. It is not a place so much, as it is eternal seperation from God. If you are not in God’s presence, you are seperated from him. That is what Hell is. Complete and eternal seperation from God.
5. As creator God has rights that we do not have. God has the right to extract punishment on people, which we do not have. It is never ok for you to murder someone, regardless of what they might have done to you (killing in self defense or war is different). However, it is perfectly reasonable for God to punish someone with death, because he is the one who created them and gave them life to begin with. Just as if you created something, you have every right to destroy it, but no one else has that right.
6. Firstly, how could God have created man WITH man’s consent? Man did not exist to give consent. It is not possible and hence could not have been any other way. Also, see point number 1. God did not create man as bad, he created him as good, but with a free will to do as he chose. Man CHOSE bad, therefore, man IS to blame for what he became. God is responsible only in the sense that he allowed man to choose bad. But if you use that logic to blame God you are really stretching it and you could blame anything on almost anyone.
7. Man was created to commune with and worship God. That is man’s whole reason for being. Without it, you are not fulfilled. There is emptiness there. Yes, God wants us to love him and to worship Him, but he does not force us to. As in all things, we are given a free will. Worship God because without him you would not even be. If you make honest observations of life, you will find that God’s very existance means that he MUST be a good God.
And that’s all I have to say about that…. 🙂
This is why I love ya Jason 🙂 “er ah smert en” (translated “You are smart”) and stuff, I must agree with you entirely here
good stuff, man.
*stare*
wow I’d love to have comprehended any of that but alas I am technically brain dead
as you know
since well you’re talkin to me
Well said, Jason. I want to address his comment that says that we are poor abused slaves invited to worship Him. First read these two passages of Scripture: (rather lengthy, sorry, but wanted to keep the context)
John 15:12-7 (NIV) “My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. You are my friends if you do what I command. I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit–fruit that will last. Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name. This is my command: Love each other.”
Galatians 3:26-4:7 (NIV) says “You are all sons of God thru faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. What I am saying is that as long as the heir is a child, he is no different from a slave, although he owns the whole estate. He is subject to guardians and trustees until the time set by his father. So also, when we were children, we were in slavery under the basic principles of the world. But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons. Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, ‘Abba, Father.’ So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir.”
So the only slavery is our slavery to SIN. Our desires controlled us. When we accept Christ as Lord, and submit to him (still not as a “slave” because it is our free choice- not something forced upon us), we are able to overcome those desires. In fact, not only are we NOT slaves, but we are considered friends–we get the ‘inside scoop’ on what God thinks. It also says we are adopted into the family, and therefore heirs of what is promised. How cool to think that whatever God has, we have a share in it. The only condition is that we need to grow/mature and bear fruit in order to receive our inheritance… and we need to love each other. His requests are not unreasonable. In fact, he only asks of us what he demonstrated.
Hmm… so, somehow submitting to God is supposed to be a BAD thing?? 🙂