Ok, so this is probably theologically speaking the biggest debate in the church today…. someone brought it up recently and I just happened upon something about it and so I decided to sit and think and come up with an opinion on it. If you want to see what my source on the info is, go to http://home.earthlink.net/~andrepar/compare.htm.
Ok, so the issue is Arminianism vs. Calvinism. Simply put, Arminianism is the belief that any person can choose to be saved, Calvinism states that right now it is already predestined whether or not each individual will be saved. There are those that will be saved no matter what, and there are others that cannot and will not ever be saved.
I will be perfectly honest with you and say that I am predisposed to Arminianism, because it is what I was originally taught, and what I have always believed. However, I have heard very good arguments both ways in the past.
The reason why I still feel that Arminianism still makes more sense is because Calvinism relies on one thing: Man’s TOTAL and COMPLETE depravity. I do not believe that that is the case. Certainly, man is in a pretty depraved state, what with sin and all, but Calvinism says that man is incapable of ever choosing good over evil. I really do not believe that to be true. I have seen unsaved people do incredibly good things. I have read of unsaved people doing great and good and selfless acts. If they are capable of choosing good there, I think they are certainly capable of choosing good in the case of choosing God. You can argue that God is different because choosing Him is a spiritual matter, but I think that when it comes down to it life in general is a spiritual matter. You can’t seperate the spiritual aspect from the physical.
One of the arguments for Calvinism is all the times in the bible where it says that God knows who will be saved, etc, etc. Yeah, God knows, I agree with that. The question is: does he just KNOW that they will be? Or does he DETERMINE whether or not they will? God refers to his chosen a lot throughout the bible as well. But who says that his chosen have to be exclusive? I think that in a sense, God’s choosing is universal. It says in the bible that he desires for ALL to be saved. If man is capable of choosing God, then God will certainly choose them upon their doing so.
This “chosen” and “elect” thing is what I really dislike about calvinism. It simply doesn’t make sense with a just God. It is NOT just for him to say “ok, these people are going to be saved for no particular reason other then i decided i wanted to save them, and everyone else is going straight to hell, nothing they can do about it.” Unless of course “the elect” are claiming that there is something special and greater about them then everyone else which makes them worthy of being chosen. And that kind of defeats the whole point of Christianity.
So really another thing being argued here is free will. Calvinism says you can’t resist the spirit, arminianism says you can. You can choose to do good, or you can choose to do evil. Free will is the defining attribute of humanity. It is what sets us apart from the rest of creation. The Bible fully supports that. I do not see how someone could believe in free will and still believe in calvinism. The two do not work together.
The final point is whether or not one can lose salvation. Is your salvation, once you have it, secure? It certainly is secure. I do not believe you can ever “lose” your salvation in Christ. But hold on, I do not fully agree with Calvinism here. While you cannot lose it, I do think that you can “abandon” it. You can conciously choose, as a result of your free will, not to serve God anymore… to not want to have anything to do with him. No, you will never accidentally lose salvation, don’t sit around fretting that you might go to hell because you committed this sin and maybe God hasn’t forgiven you for it yet… or won’t ever. He has. Salvation is only lost when one chooses to lose it.
But, you know, that’s all just my opinion.
WWWWHOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAA…..
*framesyouandhangsyouupnexttoothergreatdebaterzofhistory* 😉
very very interesting 😉 *nods*….
well thought out. quite the same of what i believe. you always word things so nicely. it may help Luke if you were to explain this now that you’ve looked into it a little more… the poor guy is so confused. (BTW, we are hanging out tonight if you are interested)
Some interesting points, that you are bringing up here. When God created Man, did he not give him a choice? Did he not tell Adam and Eve that they could eat from every tree in the Garden but one? Yes, God *knew* that eventually Man would fall, and because he *knew* he prepared the plan of salvation. Not as a contingency plan for the “worst-case-scenario” but because God is infinite. For God there is no time. Remember, God knows all things, is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. He doesn’t change. But if there is one thing that he gave us, it is choice. Last point: Did he not say: “Let us reason together.” What sort of reason can you have with someone that you have pre-programmed?
interesting. Calvin was a jerk. In fact in the village that he lived, a family made a joke and named their dog calvin. The human Calvin thought this rude and ran over the dog with his own carrage. Luther is more my guy.
You rock, and you’re right on. Go Reese.
oh yea, memmielou’s comment is cute
HA HAAAAAAAA *manicallaugh* SHE’LL TELL ME ALL!!! MUAHAHAHAHA!!!
NOTHING YOU CAN DO CAN STOP IT! THE FORCE IS WITH ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *tackle*
princess, there are no female jedi. the force doesn’t like girls. you’ll just have to be content with being the senator of naboo
lolol!!!!!!!
otay 😉 I can handle gettin in pretty frilly lacy sundresses and frolicking through fields of flowers and big ugly beastie looking alien animals 😉
update your site you POOPOOFACE
I was all ready to give more eprops;)
time for me to go get my sunshine! mua mua! *airkisses*
if you had waited 3 minutes it would have been updated 🙂 haha 🙂 Plus, you could have commented on one of the OTHER posts I made yesterday and given eprops there, miss “comment on ALL of my messages, don’t be cheap” 😉 yeah, nice to see you living up to your own standards 😉 haha 🙂
I think you misunderstand calvinism, slightly. This is an issue I struggle with a lot, because I was raised Calvinist, and I attend a Calvinist college.
Calvinists do not believe in total and complete depravity, just total depravity. That may seem like a hairline distinction, but total depravity means that everything is tainted by sin, not that everything is entirely sinful. In fact, Calvinists believe in common grace, which is God giving the ability for non christians to do good things. We can do nothing good without God, but just because one does not believe in God does not mean that God is not involved in his life.
Predestination is hard. There are two alternatives, niether of which I like. Either God leaves the most important choice of all in the hands of frail helpless people, or he decides it before we ever do. I think I want God in control.
That said, your arguments have been well thought out and are certainly valid. Besides. Theology isn’t what saves us.
Sorry I just wrote a really long explination on your board.
Also. There are too female jedi.