Last night I went to a Pedro the Lion show… first one not at Cornerstone ;). Show started pretty late… was supposed to have started at 8:30…. doors didn’t open till 9, and I think it started slightly after 9:30. Opening bands were pretty good… but Ester Drang had too long of a set, especially considering that the show started late. And I didn’t really like the vocals for them… the next band, Stratford Four, was pretty good overall. I enjoyed them. Anyway, then of course was Pedro. I was very happy to get to see him live. He was playing bass, which was new, since both times i saw him before he was playing guitar… He played like 6 new songs… I pretty much liked them all… was kind of a cool touch because they haven’t written all the music for them yet, so it was just him playing on acoustic, rather then the whole band. I tried to find the lyrics to one of the new songs online somewhere, but haven’t been able to do so as of yet… but the song had what I felt was a really cool line in it… I dunno… when I heard it I just thought it was a great line:
“My old man always swore that Hell would have no flames, just a front row seat to watch your true love pack her things and drive away.”
And also for another song, which now that I have read the lyrics I think it makes a pretty good point… but umm.. yeah, I think it should spur some kind of good discussion maybe? Anyway, here you go:
“I don’t wanna believe that none of the above is true
But I couldn’t resist it, if you were to give me proof
Why don’t you come over Thursday, maybe we can talk it through
But I’ll be packin my pistol just in case you aren’t true, I’ll shoot you
After all, you and I are nothing more than Foregone Conclusions
You were too busy steering the conversation toward the Lord
to hear the voice of the Spirit saying “shut the fuck up”
you thought it must be the devil trying to make you go astray
besides it couldn’t have been the Lord because you’re pretty sure
he doesn’t talk that way
After all, you and I are nothing more than Foregone Conclusions (repeat)”
-“Foregone Conclusions,” by Pedro the Lion
i think the whole darned thing went too long.
and it crashes b/c my site must be just too awesome for your browser.
it really didn’t go any longer then a typical concert, it just had a pretty late starting time to begin with, and then they were an hour late in actually getting started… the concert went from about 9:30 to midnight…. 2 and a half hours… pretty typical concert-length. 😉
wow. those are some powerful lyrics… is that a christian bands lyrics or what? l8er
:kt:
“Ephesians 2:8-9 (NIV) “For it is by grace you have been saved through faith–and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God–not by works, so that no one can boast.”
Ignore the part about faith entirely for now. What does it say that salvation is NOT?
It is not…
-From yourselves
-By works
There is nothing that anyone can do to earn salvation, the Bible makes this very clear.”
I completely agree with this statement, I don’t ever recall saying salvation could be earned.so now to set the record straight I will again quote the council of Trent
Canon 1)If anyone shall say that man can be justified before God by his own works which are done either by his own natural powers, or through the teaching of the law, and without divine grace through Christ Jesus: LET HIM BE ANATHEMA
the catholic church is very clear that we can not earn salvation but at the same time we do not pretend that without living in obediance to God that we would be saved as James 2:24 says “see how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.”
now if ephesians is refering to an unqulified faith such as faith alone theology would have us belive, then these two statements would be in direct contradiction.But Gods word contains no contradictions so how do we harmonize them? I would suggest that we take the entire bible into account when we formulate our definition of justification. As I said before to Amanda the works paul is condeming are those that are done in some vain effort the put God in a position to owe us something. We know that these are the works paul is talking about because we read in Roman4:4 “A workers wage is credited not as a gift but as something due.” here paul gives us the analogy of an employer and an employe as a comparison to the way many of the jews saw there relationship with God. We belive in a relationship that is based on faith so that when we work God still doesn’t owe us anything however he does reward us. (and Im not just speaking of heavenly treasures). He will Judge us according to what we have done, this is the constant theme of the bible when speaking of the judgement. Not even protestants belive in an unqulified faith you must have “saving faith”. I don’t think I will ever get anything more than an ambiguise definition for this.
Now you sight Galatians 2:17
“17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not!”
and in interpretation of that you say this
“This even goes a step further and says that even after being justified by Christ we are STILL sinners. (verse 17) I think that is kind of a fundamental flaw of your argument, it is based on an assumption that people are capable of being “good”.”
first of all I dont understand why you would call this the fundamental flaw in my argument since your the one that brought up. I don’t ever remember saying that a person can be “good” at all this argument you bring up is a straw man to avoid the actual issue which is to PROVE THAT CHRIST PAID THE FULL PENALTY FOR SIN FROM THE BIBLE. That was my challenge not to prove faith alone.
“As long as there are challenges going on here, I would be interested to see clear biblical support for this statement:”
“Fact is Christ was a sacrifice to appease Gods wrath and to open the gates of heaven so that if we believe and follow after Jesus we will be saved.”
I don’t have to prove every last bit of my theology from the bible because I reject “sola scriptura” as the traditions of men. If you want to force me into a position to defend this statment from the bible your going to have to win the sola scriptura challenge
But as to not be totally unfair romans 3:25 tells us that Christ is an expiation for our sins which is a sacraficail term. Check your concordance for the rest of the verses that refer to Christ as a sacrafice. Your mistake here is to assume that Christ paid the full price for our sin. I say he did not. Prove he did! that is the challenge.
Thank you
jason I will deal with your comment first …… I have a response
whoa.
I’m glad you had a great time
seeing Pedro…
=D
..
<3
(( . shauna . ))
hey. i keep seeing if ya updated but its still about pedro the lion show. lol
l8er
:katie:
hey sorry it took me a couple of days to get back to you I’ve been preparing for my infallibility debate.( would you like to take part in this I think you would have a lot to add in the discussion). so anyway I managed to put together a rather cumbersum rebutle so please check it out.